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Wiimote Project » Hardware Support » IR Pens » Electronics 101 - Basics for those who want to make their own IR-Pen.
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Author Topic: Electronics 101 - Basics for those who want to make their own IR-Pen.  (Read 103700 times)
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benpaddlejones
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« Reply #15 on: June 02, 2008, 03:29:26 AM »
KaosMaster
Quote from: KaosMaster on June 01, 2008, 06:07:07 AM
I am probably the uber-est n00b when it comes to this kind of electronics stuff

I with you, this is just the product of a lot of research!

Quote from: KaosMaster on June 01, 2008, 06:07:07 AM
so I'm not quite sure what to do. I thought I'd try out this wiimote whiteboard thing just to learn something and have a little fun at the same time Smiley I have bought some Vishay TSAL 6400 LED's so far... and I have no idea what to do. I did not buy resistors because I'm not sure what to get.

I understand that the LED's forward voltage is 1.35v and a max voltage of 1.6v? So if the voltage of a battery is 1.5v will it work without any resistors?

Keep it simple:

IR-LED to switch to 1x 1.2v Rechargeable AAA back to IR-LED
Only requires a few solders, the IR-LED is a little underpowered but I don't seam to have any problems and no need for a resistor so two less solders to mess up.

I managed to fit all this in a 'Artline' permanent marker confiscated from one of my lovely students!

Quote from: KaosMaster on June 01, 2008, 06:07:07 AM
I'm sorry for asking what are probably some really stupid questions but I would love to get this working.
I appreciate anyone that takes the time to answer me Smiley
No such thing as a stupid question!

Good Luck
Benpaddlejones
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benpaddlejones
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« Reply #16 on: June 02, 2008, 03:38:55 AM »
Quote from: Francisco on June 01, 2008, 07:55:38 PM
apdewith and all,
"Can we say that TSAL 5300 is better than TSAL 6400?
Have we a 'new' winning IR led?"

Can you do a quick test:
Using JCL's App in pen mode in Onenote or similar write over two words on a projected image and see how close both pens track to the actual word.

Take a photo and post.

benpaddlejones
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KaosMaster
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« Reply #17 on: June 02, 2008, 03:51:02 AM »
Thanks for your very helpful replies Francisco and benpaddlejones Smiley

I'll probably try the two AA rechargable batteries coz i've got a few lying around. I will let you know how it went once I get it working.
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benpaddlejones
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« Reply #18 on: June 02, 2008, 05:41:09 AM »
KaosMaster
Only need 1x battery (2x 1.5v = 3v)

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KaosMaster
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« Reply #19 on: June 02, 2008, 07:52:48 AM »
Oh... haha. Thanks for telling me.. I probably would've blown quite a few LED's trying to get that to work with 2 batteries. I probably won't be able to do it till the weekend. Damn exams coming up. lol.
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Francisco
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« Reply #20 on: June 02, 2008, 10:18:54 AM »
Quote from: benpaddlejones on June 02, 2008, 03:38:55 AM
Can you do a quick test:
Using JCL's App in pen mode in Onenote or similar write over two words on a projected image and see how close both pens track to the actual word.
Take a photo and post.

I'm a Mac user. I use http://www.uweschmidt.org/wiimote-whiteboard/ and I'm very happy with the work of Uwe!!!
Please don't ask me to work with Microsoft
Wink

I can use http://www.panic.com/desktastic/ to do this accurate test but remember:
I don't have a TSAL 6400... I have a TSUS 5400 and a TSAL 5300!
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benpaddlejones
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« Reply #21 on: June 02, 2008, 03:35:18 PM »
Francisco
No probs just turn off mouse smoothing as that will mask minor quality issuess.

Benpaddlejones :-)
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mikethm
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« Reply #22 on: June 03, 2008, 03:13:32 PM »
I am uber noob and I am confused by the talk about voltages... Thing is, I found a keychain led where it is just a matter of replacing the normal led with a infrared light. A 3 second process.Pull out and push in... that's it.

What I would like to know is... it uses 2x CR2016 3v button type batteries like those you use in scientific calculators... so are those equal to 4 x 1.5v batteries you guys talking about here?

And would someone be so kind as to recommend a suitable led for my situation?

Edit: I found that I could replace the x2 CR2016 with a single 3v CR2032... will that do without the need for a resistor? Thanks
« Last Edit: June 03, 2008, 04:15:08 PM by mikethm » Logged
benpaddlejones
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« Reply #23 on: June 03, 2008, 07:03:32 PM »
mikethm
Read my first post from this topic, it explains everything.

You need to read the data sheet from your IR-LED manufacturer (different IR-LED's have different specs).

My post shows you what to look for.

If you are using 2x 3volt batteries then your source voltage is 6volts. When you know the data from your IR-LED manufacturer use the resistor calculator to calculate required resistance.

You may find you will need a resistor or you will find IR-LED life is very short.

As I said though read my post (particularly the last lesson, I'm guessing your like me and this lesson is both our realities  Grin)

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« Reply #24 on: June 04, 2008, 12:19:38 AM »
No. You misunderstood me. What I am trying to say is... I can't put in a resistor becase there is only space to slide in the led. So I would appreciate if anyone can  tell me that using a 3v CR2032 battery on a led with typical forward voltage of 2.2v and max reverse of 5v is ok?
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benpaddlejones
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« Reply #25 on: June 04, 2008, 12:35:14 AM »
mikethm
1. Reverse voltage means nothing for your application, what matters is the typical voltage.
2. If only 1x3v battery then you MAY get away with it but your IR-LED life will be shortened compared to if you use a resistor
3. If you are using 2x3v batteries the life of the IR-LED will be very short

IR-LED's are quite cheap given ease of installation, suck it and see!

The higher voltage reduces the life of the cathode so it annodises too quickly and burns out!

benpaddlejones
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mikethm
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« Reply #26 on: June 05, 2008, 01:12:44 PM »
Thanks for the advice.

I got my IR leds from farnell's singapore office. As I was unwilling to wait for them to ship parts from their UK HQ, I took whatever was available...

Vishay TSUS5202 and TSAL5300.As Osram was more expensive, I didn't take any of those.

The TSAL5300 datasheet confuse me about the voltage... http://www.vishay.com/docs/81008/tsal5300.pdf

So does it say it take 1.6V max or 3V max???

If it is 3V then it would be perfect. Since I am too lazy to build like what you guys did. Me? I simply unscrew a keychain and remove the light led and 2x 3V CR2016 batteries. Then I put in the infra led (had to bend one wire a bit thought...) and a single 3V CR2032. Screw the keychain cover back and that was it.
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benpaddlejones
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« Reply #27 on: June 05, 2008, 07:33:03 PM »
mikethm

My first post explains the theory of this but here is your maths:

Source voltage:
     Vishay 5300 Maximum Forward Voltage = 3v
     CR2016 3v min voltage = 2 v (approx, need to check battery manufacturers datasheet)
3/2 = 2x CR2016 3v
 
Resistance
     Vishay 5300 Typical Forward Voltage = 1.35v
     2x CR2016 3v = 6v
     Diode Forward Current = 100ma
http://led.linear1.org/1led.wiz
The wizard recommends a 1W or greater 47 ohm resistor. The color code for 47 ohms is yellow violet black.

Could try 1 battery, may be a little under powered as it drains? Theoretcially needs a resistor but not as bad as 6v. Just put a peice of metal in place of one.

benpaddlejones
p.s. The Osram's don't work as well as the Vishay, so you made a good choice
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Francisco
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« Reply #28 on: June 07, 2008, 05:58:22 AM »
Like promised, my tests:

Made on my MacBook Pro 15" screen <-- not a very good screen to testing
Made with Uwe Schmidt Wiimote Whiteboard (for Mac)
Made with TabletDraw

Prefs:
Mouse movement smoothing -> "Simple Moving Average" +
Mouse movement threshold -> "5 pixels"
and
Mouse movement smoothing -> "none" +
Mouse movement threshold -> "5 pixels"

Made with my 2 IR Pens:
http://clinik.net/wiimote/wiimote_info_my_pen_1.php
http://clinik.net/wiimote/wiimote_info_my_pen_2.php



More info:
http://clinik.net/wiimote/

Cheers
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benpaddlejones
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« Reply #29 on: June 07, 2008, 09:18:30 PM »
Fransico
Interesting?
I think there is fine but noticable difference!

I would like to compare on a Data Projected Whiteboard, which should amplify differences. Also compare against the Vishay TSAL6400 which has been the standard to date.

I'm writing reports and have 6000 words due to uni this week, so no time. But in a few weeks, I'm going to do a big test to quantify which is the best for the Whiteboard application.

I will order a few and include in my test.

benpaddlejones  Cheesy
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