Wiimote Project

Hi all,

I have a very basic question. Is there any way we can translate the Wiimote Whiteboard into a multitouch experience. Lets have a comparison with a conventional Chalk board. The first thing that comes to my mind is that, no matter how much primitive the chalkboard is - it surely allows N number of people to write simultaneously.

Can this be done, say 4 kids simultaneously writing on Wiimote Whiteboard with 4 IR pens (each writing with one pen). Basically I'm looking for some Windows based softwares where this can be demonstrated...

Thanking you all in advance....

raich
It is something we have played with. The problem is a suitable Multitouch application. The Boonjin tells me Smoothboard should be able to make multitouch complient but for what??? As boonjin said to me "its like laying telephone cable for a telephone system that doesn't exist".

I have asked the team at KindleLab to consider inetgrating multitouch with their IWB application but no one has taken the challenge.

But yes I also see a huge amount of potential for this.

benpaddlejones :)

Is there a program that can be run separately that enables multiple cursors with multiple mice?

Wiweeyum
Not at the moment

benpaddlejones :)

Well that makes since, since I wasn't able to find one when I went looking. :) I guess I was under the impression that there was one.

Thanks benpaddlejones.

as to the question of is there a program that will enable multiple inputs and multiple cursers...

there is and its free for 3 inputs... $$ for more
http://www.wunderworks.com/home/

so please someone figure out how multple

adidas4275
Great find was only released a month ago!

I have just requested a SDK from them and tried with Smoothboard the curso just jumps?

Work to be done but worth the effort thats for shore!

benpaddlejones :)

Aha! Fantastic! I'm excited about this.

yeah, i am going to buy 2 logitech dinovo minis for my students to use in class..

http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/keyboards/keyboard/devices/3848&cl=US,EN

i teach HS science and i know my students would love to "txt" in class and the mini is just like a smartphone keyboard.


with the program for multi input its just the mouse but they talk about getting multi keyboard input also....

would love to have 2-3 wiimotes in presenter mode for students to control the mouse just like the Wii has

Hi,

I've tried http://www.wunderworks.com/home/ teamplayer program using the latest smoothboard 1.0 and two mice. Before running the smoothboard, two diffrent people can move each mouse very nicely, but, one mouse active at a time, but still the other one can move on the screen without capable doing sth. When I run the smoothboard, let's say, in the paint program, only people using mice can write on the screen, with the IR pen, I was able to move the cursor around and not able to write on the screen.

Boon Jin, you should consder checking this out. Take care.

eyucel
The problem is teamplayer works by have multiple mice. Smoothboard is just one mouse. So for team board to work it we will need to have multiple smoothboard running.

For the two to work there will need to be some work between Boonjin and wunderworks. I sent them and email and am awaiting their reply.

benpaddlejones :)

I tried to get this going forever.  There are some tricks you can do in windows to have multipoint, but it only works with designed sofware.  Microsoft even has an SDK out for it.

Windows 7 will have this built in.

I have come across the same problem, I often let student use a wiimote for presenter mode but when I want to move with the mouse, we fight over the cursor.   I like to set the "HOME" Wiimote button to toggle the IR camera On/Off to avoid such problems for now.

I downloaded the windows 7 beta so I could attempt to fiddle with mutitouch stuff, but have managed to get my computer in a never ending restart cycle due to some hardware and driver conflicts. :P I guess it'll have to wait for now.

Hey guys I'm very new but I have seen a vid where a person has made a multitouch screen or surface that unfortunatly doesn't use a wiimote but does use infrared leds but this project requires some construction of a frame and a projector a webcam and a manual link: www.multitouch.nl/documents/multitouchdisplay_howto_070523_v02.pdf (http://www.multitouch.nl/documents/multitouchdisplay_howto_070523_v02.pdf) and video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKvZ4K5eA_c (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKvZ4K5eA_c). Good luke with you if you try. It meant to be really cool... I like the video my self.

armix8
He does use a Wiimote look carefully, he has painted black, just look carefully.

benpaddlejones :)

Hi all,
I believe Promethean is releasing a multitouch system with their product early this year as advised by their promoters at a conference I attended in October last year. They said up to 4 pens will be able to be used simultaneously. How are they doing it??? Could be worthwhile looking into. I wonder if it will only work when hooked up to a promethean whiteboard and if other windows applications will be able to use this feature eg linktivity presenter, anotate pro, jarnal etc. Maybe it will be specifically for use with Promethean software only?? Can someone find out.
Cheers
Joe.

jdkestewart
It requires a firmware upgrade for their hardware and it (like all Promethean features) are bound to the harwdare/software combination. If you just use the soaftware (Activstudio) then no love!

Don't worry, I have tried.

benpaddlejones :)

Interwrite is also offering this in the latest version of their software, but I believe it is also only for those using Interwrites equipment. 

Hi,
This all sounds really positive. It (multi-touch) obviously can be achieved. If promethean and interwrite have this capability, then it's only a matter of time before the clever programers out there can get the wiimote working too. It has 4 built in Ir cameras. Can each be dedicated to a different pen? Maybe 2 wiimotes may be needed but whatever it takes, I hope you can get it going. To those with the gift of programming - may the wiimote force be with you.
Joe

My software already outputs multitouch data (for up to 4 IR pens) in the commonly-used TUIO/OSC (http://tuio.lfsaw.de/) format. Someone "just" needs to write Whiteboard software that makes use of it...


I'm sorry to say, but you don't understand how this works.



Uwe

ujs/jdkstewart
As ujs said the issue is not the Wiimote hardware or the software. The Wiimote can track 4x IR-sources (2x Wiimotes = 8 IR-sources). The issue is the existance of software, even the Promethean solution is not very pretty, users allocated screen space. So its not really multitouch, more segmented screens. I haven't seen the interwrite. What would be really good if multitouch could be embeded in kindlelab. It's opensource and a reasonable IWB expereince (perfect for multitouch) but it needs a good programmer to add-in multitouch.

Myself and Boonjin have spooken at length about the posibilities but their is not point installing telephone cable for a telephone system that doesn't exist yet (boonjin's analogy). Mac has a few application in TUIO/OSC format hence why ujs has included in Java Whiteboard.

benpaddlejones :)

Well, it's not that simple. Each Wiimote will track the 4 brightest IR sources. So using 8 equally bright IR lights won't work as you might expect.


Most multitouch apps that I'm aware of are Flash and hence cross-platform. More details: http://www.uweschmidt.org/comment/596


Uwe

Hi Ujs and Ben and to everyone else who's reading,
Firstly, Ujs, you don't have to be sorry for my ignorance in understanding how it works. haha. I was just venting ideas. I'm a full time teacher in a primary school and have what I consider to be the ultimate permanent setup with the option to be fully portable in seconds. I don't have the time to try and learn and understand what it takes to be a programmer, but those with the gift, PLEASE please please develop a true multitouch system so that I can annotate, draw etc directly onto programs such as paint, jarnal, kindlelab the internet etc so that 3 or more students can all write simultaneously.  Brainstorming lessons, filling in scanned maths and literacy sheets as pdf files, racing each other to complete algorithms / educational games etc would be sooooooo cool!  I have built a lot of different style pens for the kids and now have to set up the whole school with this system.
I won't pretend to try and understand the intricate details and the complex formulas to programming the wiimote and how it works. I'm purely interested in the pedagogy behind Interactive Whiteboards and how to best maximise and enhance student learning. I have been invited by several schools and the Diocese in which I work to demonstrate to staff of to make the best use of IWB technology.  The children absolutely love the versatility of this system. What I  care most about is that it works, works well and I want to help others get it working.
I don't really understand Boonjin's analogy. I'm more thinking, "If you build it, they will come."
Maybe it's time that Microsoft develops a totally new computer platform that incorporates the use of multiple mice simultaneously in all applications. This would solve the issues. (Just venting ideas again Ujs because I don't have a clue as to what's involved in programming a completely new system)
Please keep working to push the limits.
P.S Can someone tell me how to post pictures here. I want to show some cool ideas with my set up but when I click on the "Insert image" icon above all I get is this ....()
Regards,
Joe.

Hi Joe,

Yeah, it is hugely dependent on how Windows 7 will help in the development of multitouch software.
 "If you build it, they will come." - The multitouch platform based on TUOI has been in existence but I have still not seen any true multi touch application that will be used as a killer app.

Nonetheless, I am developing other work that will achieve much better results for multi touch compared to Johnny Lee's Wiimote Whiteboard.

Regards,
Boon Jin

I didn't know that. I just wanted to let you know that it doesn't work as you think.

Check this out: http://www.microsoft.com/unlimitedpotential/programs/multipoint.mspx

Any details on that?


Uwe

Hi again, Uwe,
As the saying goes, "Knowledge is power!" In my pursuits I will endeavour to find out more. Thanks.
Regards,
Joe.

P.S How do you insert images(http://).... anyone? All I get is this img][/img] when I click on Insert images icon.

Hi Uwe,
Thanks so much for the link you posted below. This IS truly awesome. I tried to install the multipoint sdk but it won't install on windows xp unless it's running service pack 2. (I'm running service pack 3.) Will work on Vista. Obviously the technology and research into the pedagogy behind multipoint has all been done. It's just a matter of time before we see a full scale release.  I can't wait.

Quote from: jdkestewart on Today at 06:09:16 PM
Maybe it's time that Microsoft develops a totally new computer platform that incorporates the use of multiple mice simultaneously in all applications. This would solve the issues. (Just venting ideas again Ujs because I don't have a clue as to what's involved in programming a completely new system)

Check this out: http://www.microsoft.com/unlimitedpotential/programs/multipoint.mspx


Cheers,
Joe

Interwrites software is similar, you can split the screen for multiple users (up to 9 devices).  I'm actually picking up the new Mobi pad and they said they would let me try out some of the student pads (when they are available), so I will be able to test out how it works.  Even if it isn't a true multitouch it should still be fun to work with in the classroom.

Promethean IWB also have an activote system where each child has a pod which can input multiple choice answers. Each child / pod is assigned so that the teacher can distinguish who has answered and who hasn't but also who got it right. There are several formats to display results on the whiteboard. It Does cost about $3000 for a class set though. This isn't multitouch but it is multiuser and the kids love it. Is anyone going to explore if this can be replicated more cheaply? I just love the concept of being able to actively engage more than one student at a time and therefore get the most out of this technology at an affordible price.

Cheers,
Joe.

Speaking of the activote system, an interesting addition to the mobi is a small screen that sends the clicker input right to the mobi, so students aren't able to see the results, but the teacher get instant results as to who has answered and who answered correctly.  I will not have the clickers in my classroom so I won't be able to test this out.  Not sure what the cost of a full set of eInstruction clickers run, but it would probably be a similar price for clickers and a multi-pad system or clickers and an interactive whiteboard.  Sorry, off topic.

When this happens, I'm thinking I'll have to use a rear projection set-up for my board.  If four of my first graders are using the board at the same time, they will cast so much shadow on the wiiboard that nobody will be able to see anything.  This guy, who I think is a first grade teacher in Iowa has a great set-up.  He stated that he built the stand and bought the rear projection screen from Rosebrand.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWSrW8x3PBY

hello,
I found a application not built exactly for ir pens but we could work with it on wiimote project as a group project
http://cpnmouse.sourceforge.net/ (http://cpnmouse.sourceforge.net/)

Has anyone found any programs that can do the whole multi-touch thing. I would love to make a table for my classroom that would allow several kids to play at once. I came across this website the other day if anyone knows what to do with them:
http://www.softmt.com/
It has quite a few apps to download but I can't figure out how to work them.
Chris

Have y'all seen this? - http://code.google.com/p/wiimotetuio/ (http://code.google.com/p/wiimotetuio/)

It's supposed to be a Wiimote Whiteboard -> TUIO data converter. Haven't tested it very thoroughly, but it did seem to work with a TouchEarth plugin for NASA's WorldWInd.

But, most of the multi-touch programs are Flash. I'm not entirely sure of this, but I believe there are programs that  enable Flash to receive OSC/TUIO (Flosc - http://code.google.com/p/flosc/)

Haven't gotten any Flash apps to work yet. But, I only tested for about an hour or two.
Good luck

P.S. - Did manage to get some Flash apps to recognize the IR lights as TUIO!

we can use tuio based wiimote surface to bridge to multitouch vista project see http://www.codeplex.com/MultiTouchVista
 and daniel's awesome HID driver to get multitouch in windows also have multiple mice
great right?

Eric, I would be interested to see what you come up with on the rear projection idea, I have had some success with greaseproof paper on the back of a Perspex sliding door of a fume hood in the science lab. Something I learnt from a post here...

I would love to explore the idea of some cheap voting system, the first thought that pops to mind is some cheap old PDAs on a wireless router, just need to find some old PDAs somewhere....   Junk yard here I come...

Cheers
DJM

Hi,

has somebody successfully configured MPX (the multitouch X server) in Linux??  It could solve the multitouch issue for linux platforms, but I don't know how to install.

If so, could you please post some information??

Thank you in advance

Chema

I have had success using MultiTouchVista, Windows7 and WiimoteTUIO v0.4. However, the main issue here is with regards to the smoothness of movements. Both programs recomended by people on this site have those functions built in. So if one were to either add TUIO output to BoonJinns program, or to modify WiimoteTUIO so that it outputted "smoothed" TUIO data, then we would have an (almost) true smooth hardware based multi-IR tracking system.

Hi,

Nice to hear that you have reported success in Windows 7 and WiimoteTUIO.

I am considering to add multitouch support to Smoothbboard but have not seen many applications that will benefit on this feature yet. Maybe Windows 7 will change this perception. :)

Actually the smoothing codes that I have implemented in Smoothboard is quite simple and short.

A simple modification on WiimoteTUIO should do the trick.
The codes can be extracted from Brian Peek's book (Wiimote Whiteboard chapter, co-authored by Johnny Lee and myself)
http://books.google.com/books?id=d1QC69atuocC&lpg=PP1&pg=PA377

Regards,
Boon Jin

Hello, I am a Smoothboard user and used it in powerpoint presentations with the pptPlex plugin from office labs.
It works great but it would be even better with the multitouch version!

I tried to use TUIO + Multitouch vista on win 7 but the result was not good: too much lag in the whole chain, I couldn't have natural motions (with my laptop anyway...).

Boonjin, as soon as you add multitouch to Smoothboard I will use it with the touch version of pptPlex!

Thx
Thomas