Wiimote Project

Hardware Support => IR Pens => Topic started by: Francisco on May 19, 2008, 09:17:12 AM

Title: Inside my IR Pen
Post by: Francisco on May 19, 2008, 09:17:12 AM
Hi,

I make some pages about Wiimote Whiteboard.
http://clinik.net/wiimote/ (http://clinik.net/wiimote/)

One of them is about my IR Pen.
http://clinik.net/wiimote/wiimote_info_my_pen_1.php (http://clinik.net/wiimote/wiimote_info_my_pen_1.php)

I hope it help people like me (not so expert in this hi-tech things :) ) to understand the Wiimote Whiteboard functioning and, therefore, to try it!
Cheers
Francisco
Title: Re: Inside my IR Pen
Post by: dice on May 19, 2008, 10:57:04 AM
IR pen looks good I am going to be working with my MacBook Pro and seeing if I can get the Wiimote Whiteboard working on that.

Site looks great as well

Dice
Title: Re: Inside my IR Pen
Post by: UndCon on May 19, 2008, 11:08:13 AM
Great job Francisco!
Title: Re: Inside my IR Pen
Post by: Francisco on May 19, 2008, 12:31:32 PM
Dice,

I work with a Macbook Pro (10.5) with no problems!
As you may know, just place the wiimote in the right location and find a good IR pen.

And for the IR pen, you must try the momentary switch with lever!!!
I first see it in the "Faber-Caster" IR pen from UndCon! I use other model, with a tiny wheel. It's very smooth. Better than most mouse clicks:)

Francisco
Title: Re: Inside my IR Pen
Post by: UndCon on May 19, 2008, 01:21:51 PM
Im glad I inspired you with the switch - I was looking at that model (with wheel) as well but opted for the one without... do you like the feel of the roller or do you think it is better without ?

Hopefully I get my soldering iron back this week from my friend so I can finish off my tutorial...
//UndCon
Title: Re: Inside my IR Pen
Post by: Francisco on May 19, 2008, 01:59:49 PM
You may see here:
http://clinik.net/wiimote/wiimote_info_my_pen_1.php (http://clinik.net/wiimote/wiimote_info_my_pen_1.php)
as long as you can make the hole (img 3), the feel of the roller (white plastic, in my case) is quite good!!!

And which Led you use?

Francisco
Title: Re: Inside my IR Pen
Post by: UndCon on May 19, 2008, 03:03:47 PM
for my first pen (pic in avatar) i used a recycled IRled from an old remote

in my second pen (tutorial) i use S081 from KEMO

http://www.kemo-electronic.com/en/sortimente/led/index.htm


(Ekvivalent to Siemens LD271)

Specs   
IF:   100 mA
Kapsel:   clear blue 5 mm
angle:   25
VF:   1,2 V
wavelength:   940 nm
Title: Re: Inside my IR Pen
Post by: JackieC on May 19, 2008, 03:29:53 PM
Hi UndCon,

How you can get the IR-led from KEMO because I saw on their website they only sell it to company or the industry only, not for private person. Since you live in Sweden, do you know which places are selling cheap and low delivery cost in Europe?. I can't get the cheap price in Finland :( they cost me a lot even shipping 15 for just delivery inside Finland :o.
Title: Re: Inside my IR Pen
Post by: UndCon on May 20, 2008, 01:30:34 AM
I bought mine at www.kjell.com #89281

http://www.kjell.com/content/templates/shop_main_details.aspx?item=89281&path=239000000,288500000,289000000

I also bought my IRarray there (Kemo B223) -#87223

http://www.kjell.com/content/templates/shop_main_details.aspx?item=87223&path=239000000,242500000,244000000


Im not sure about shipping to Finland from Kjell.com...

Also try Conrad.de and choose international

(or conrad.se if you can cope with swedish)
Title: Re: Inside my IR Pen
Post by: JackieC on May 20, 2008, 02:02:41 PM
Thank for your info Undcond. I tried to order in Kjell websilte, it's very weird that they cost me with a terrible shipping cost :-) about250 SEK for only 10 pack of LED (29SEK) :). Well I had ordered in DealExtreme : 20 leds, 5mm  IR-led,
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.2399

I have no idea about its spec and I think it 's not good led but for only $2.93 (free shipping) so it's acceptable. I wonder if it is a weak LED, can we make a IR-pen with 2 leds in a series in order to make it strong enough?

 
Title: Re: Inside my IR Pen
Post by: UndCon on May 21, 2008, 12:22:33 AM
If you want me to I can buy at Kjell as they have a store in my town.

I can send you a letter with some bubblewrap at the cost of about 10SEK

So you have them for about 40 SEK

Send me a PM if you want to talk about it...
Title: Re: Inside my IR Pen
Post by: benpaddlejones on May 21, 2008, 07:54:10 AM
Try: http://uk.farnell.com/

The Vishay TSAL6400 came from UK posted to Australia for free (min $10 order). I assume should be able to post to Finland for similar cost???

UndCon: Given it is acutely obvious the best results are in the Vishay TSAL6400 and there are numerous post on the same topic "where can I buy them from?" is it worth compiling a list of suppliers perhaps through a wiki so can be modified and updated by users???

benpaddlejones
Title: Re: Inside my IR Pen
Post by: UndCon on May 21, 2008, 11:11:31 AM
It can be a good idea - but if people search or read several posts before they start off it is not necessary


EDIT : spells like a cat (as usual)
Title: Re: Inside my IR Pen
Post by: JackieC on May 21, 2008, 12:30:30 PM
Thanks very much for both of you, Undcon & benpaddlejones for your info, I will try the UK link, I hope I can get the right LED :), otherwise I will msg Undcon to ask him to help me out


regards.
Title: Re: Inside my IR Pen
Post by: Francisco on May 21, 2008, 01:25:23 PM
UndCon,

In my 1st IR pen I used the
Vishay TSUS 5400 (with some diffrences from the TSAL 6400)
 
Fortunately, my local store found the
Vishay TSAL 5300 (almost like the TSAL 6400)

TSAL 6400
Angle of half intensity 25
Peak wavelength 940 nm
Forward current 100 mA
Forward voltage 1.35v - 1.6v

TSAL 5300
Angle of half intensity 22 (this is different - I conjecture its better)
Peak wavelength 940 nm (in the led bag said 950nm)
Forward current 100 mA (equal)
Forward voltage 1.35v - 1.6v (equal)

I will make my 2nd IR pen with this 5300 led plus a 12v battery with a 1,2 Kohms.

Can we say that TSAL 5300 is better than TSAL 6400?
Have we a 'new' winning IR led?
:D

Can you (or someone) help me with this technical features?

Thanks
Francisco
Title: Re: Inside my IR Pen
Post by: benpaddlejones on May 22, 2008, 04:25:23 AM
Francisco
You will find the wider the viewing angle the better it will work as an IR-Pen for an Wiimote Interactive whiteboard. As pen is directed at whiteboard, not the wiimote (may be different for other Wiimote Hacks).

I have tried a number of different IR-Leds including TSAL6200 (same everything as TSAL6400 with a relatively slightly narrow viewing angle) and several other manufacturers IR-Leds including a IR-Led with an 80 degree viewing angle none have worked better than the TSAL6400. I am about to test a TSAL7600 which requires a higher voltage but has a 60 degree viewing angle.

Once I get my reports done I'm going to run an experiment to quantify which is better.

You will find 12v is hugely over powering your Led, double check your resistance or risk blowing your Led very quickly. I found a 1.2v rechargeable works perfect for the 1.35v Vishay TSAL6400 and no resistor required (two less solders to mess up). See my post http://www.wiimoteproject.com/ir-pens/electronics-101-sharing-my-mistakes-updated-t834.0.html (http://www.wiimoteproject.com/ir-pens/electronics-101-sharing-my-mistakes-updated-t834.0.html) it will help you understand the electronic basics of IR-Leds including calculating required voltage and resistance.

benpaddlejones



Title: Re: Inside my IR Pen
Post by: Francisco on May 22, 2008, 05:26:20 AM
Hi Ben,
Thanks for your attention!

I'm trying to be a good student
:)
It was just because your "Lesson #1: use the correct power source..." that I choose the combination:
batery: 12v
+
resistor: 1,2 Kohm

If I use a 1,5v battery, the minimum voltage from it don't exceeds the max voltage of the diode.
If the IR pen has space, I could use two 1,5 battery and some resistor... but my IR pen have space just for 1 battery.
See here: http://clinik.net/wiimote/wiimote_info_my_pen_1.php (http://clinik.net/wiimote/wiimote_info_my_pen_1.php) (image 2 or 3).
So I decide use the 12v (+ 1,2Kohm calculated from http://led.linear1.org/1led.wiz (http://led.linear1.org/1led.wiz) ). Is this correct?

And about the TSAL 6400:
Why you don't open a webstore called
www.tsal6400.com
It could be the business of the decade!
:D

I can't find it in my local store.
I propose you (or UndCon or someone else...) some kind of deal:
I will send you a great "Momentary Switch with Lever and Roller Wheel" (in my opinion, the Rolls Royce of the switchs -see image 1 or 2 to see how I use it) an you will send me back 1 (or two...) TSAL 6400 IR leds.

Think about it ;)
Francisco
Title: Re: Inside my IR Pen
Post by: benpaddlejones on May 23, 2008, 06:22:24 AM
Francisco
The Vishay TSAL6400 is max 1.6v so 12v is hugely over powering (I assume you are typing "twelve volts" not "one point two volts" as I am). The average is 1.35v (see data sheet http://www.vishay.com/docs/81011/tsal6400.pdf (http://www.vishay.com/docs/81011/tsal6400.pdf)) So a 1.5v AA or AAA is just ample although I am using a 1.2v rechargable AAA which works awesome and doesn't require a resistor so two less solders to screw up!

I'm in Australia mate, so no good getting posted from europe only to post back.

This is the list of Vishay Distributors in Finland from Vishay's website: http://www.vishay.com/ir-emitting-diodes/sales?locs=Finland (http://www.vishay.com/ir-emitting-diodes/sales?locs=Finland). They list Farnell Finland:
Farnell
Kirkonkylantie 3B
00700
Helsinki, Finland
Phone: 358-9-3455 400
Fax: 358-9-3455 411
Email: [email protected]  
http://fi.farnell.com/ (http://fi.farnell.com/)
Vishay TSAL6400 from Farnell Finland (I think it says 6781 in stock, although I can't read Finlandian!!!)
http://fi.farnell.com/3152868/optoelectronics/product.us0?sku=vishay-tsal6400 (http://fi.farnell.com/3152868/optoelectronics/product.us0?sku=vishay-tsal6400)

This is the same company I bought mine.They use the manufacturers product codes.

Goodluck

benpaddlejones
Title: Re: Inside my IR Pen
Post by: Francisco on May 23, 2008, 08:38:47 AM
Thanks a lot Ben!

About the TSAL 6400
I think I will use only one 1,5v battery, as you suggest. But answer me this question:
If I use a 12v battery plus a 1,2 Kohm resistor, is there any risc of over powering the IR led?...

About the deal :)
I'm not in Finland. I'm in Portugal. The Australia other side of the globe!!!
And yes, there are several Vishay resellers in my country.
My ideia was not the best way o get a TSAL 6400, but a different way.

If there isn't anyone to make this deal:

"I will send you a great "Momentary Switch with Lever and Roller Wheel" (in my opinion, the Rolls Royce of the switchs -see image 1 or 2, here http://clinik.net/wiimote/wiimote_info_my_pen_1.php (http://clinik.net/wiimote/wiimote_info_my_pen_1.php) , to see how I use it) an you will send me back 1 (or two...) TSAL 6400 IR leds."

I will buy one in Portugal (or other country, since portuguese stores don't have web pages).

Again, thanks a lot!!!
Title: Re: Inside my IR Pen
Post by: JackieC on May 23, 2008, 01:32:47 PM
Thank Ben,

I known it man but :) Do you think if I buy 5 led and pay them near 40 (near 60$)  :P just for doing 1 pen :), you know they crazy because they only sell cheap for whom order over 50 up hehe (Finland is crazy place: high % taxes & everything is expensive than other country :D). I will try my research to find the correct vishay LED in some websites, otherwise I will ask Uncond for help :P. I think his IR-led is also good spec as similar to the tsal6400
Title: Re: Inside my IR Pen
Post by: Francisco on May 23, 2008, 01:44:45 PM
Jackie:

I use the Vishay TSUS 540 with a 1,5v. Works very good.
http://www.vishay.com/ir-emitting-diodes/list/product-81056/

I also find that Vishay TSAL 5300 quite like TSAL 6400! My 2nd IR pen will have this TSAL 5300.
http://www.vishay.com/ir-emitting-diodes/list/product-81008/

And if you want one TSAL 5300 I can send one to you. Then you send me something... just to do some exchange.

Cheers
Title: Re: Inside my IR Pen
Post by: UndCon on May 23, 2008, 05:42:49 PM
I was thinking of ordering a bunch of IRleds from Vishay (talking about 100's)

The guy I was supposed to talk to was away until Monday so Ill have to wait...
Title: Re: Inside my IR Pen
Post by: benpaddlejones on May 23, 2008, 07:53:25 PM
If I use a 12v battery plus a 1,2 Kohm resistor, is there any risc of over powering the IR led?...

I used http://www.electro-tech-online.com/ (http://www.electro-tech-online.com/) to check my reasearch for that post. Best to post them your question with more details on your power source (max/min/typical voltage) and they will help.

Benpaddlejones
Title: Re: Inside my IR Pen
Post by: Francisco on May 23, 2008, 08:35:52 PM
Ben,
Thanks for your clarification.
I adopt your "two less solders to screw up!". My 2nd IR pen just have one 1,5v battery. And it works fine!!!

UndCon,
Can I have any chance to have 2 ou 3 of your leds? I would like to test the TSAL 6400...
Title: Re: Inside my IR Pen
Post by: JackieC on May 29, 2008, 03:34:32 AM
@Francisco:

- How could you define the TSAL5300 is good or working fine?.
- How far from you IR-pen to the wiimote? (I mean the maximum range that works when you writing on the white  board -->> Is it work well with the distance 3-5 m?)
- Did you get all programs work with your pen without any problem?
- Is there any pros or cons from that the TSAL5300?

The reason that I want to ask you because I want to make sure not getting useless thing and save time to search many option.


 
Title: Re: Inside my IR Pen
Post by: Francisco on May 29, 2008, 01:39:37 PM
Hi Jackie

I did the webcam test and saw a very significant diference between my two pens TSUS 540 TSAL 5300
The TSAL 5300 is brighter!!!

The Vishay TSAL 5300 is quite like 6400.

Go to my IR Pen #2 page and check the both links of datasheets 5300 vs 6400
http://clinik.net/wiimote/wiimote_info_my_pen_2.php

Now your questions:
- How could you define the TSAL5300 is good or working fine?.
My english is poor -as you already note :) it difficult for me choose the perfect word to describe the TSAL 5300 working...
More than fine... good... even, great!
I really don't know if I need the Rolls Royce TSAL 6400
:D
This TSAL works... great!

- How far from you IR-pen to the wiimote? (I mean the maximum range that works when you writing on the white  board -->> Is it work well with the distance 3-5 m?)
I will test the maximum (but 3 meters... of course!)

- Did you get all programs work with your pen without any problem?
Yes... (but the programs that work with sensitive pens like Rita or TabletDraw only have 1 pressure pen, do you understand?!)

- Is there any pros or cons from that the TSAL5300?
I can't say...

And again, go to my IR Pen #2 web page and check the links of both datasheets 5300 vs 6400
http://clinik.net/wiimote/wiimote_info_my_pen_2.php

Cheers!
Title: Re: Inside my IR Pen
Post by: JackieC on May 29, 2008, 02:52:05 PM
Thank you very much Francis, I am clear enough now :). I will try to make the TSAL5300 first and try the Rolls-Royce 6400 later. Cheers :)
Title: Re: Inside my IR Pen
Post by: sesam on August 05, 2008, 07:15:18 PM
I compared datasheets of 5300 vs 6400. Look at Fig.10 (almost last page) to see that 5300 has a more smooth spreading of light, while the 6400 has been a bit more modified to try to focus more light straight forward. At light intensity, there's proof that 5300 gives a tiny bit of stronger light than 6400. So maybe 5300 is actually a better choice :). Or go with whatever you can get your hands on :).
Title: Re: Inside my IR Pen
Post by: UndCon on December 31, 2008, 03:07:45 AM
I can only provide you with the datasheet from Farnell and my own experiences, but as I havent tried 5300's I cannot compare...
Title: Re: Inside my IR Pen
Post by: zharkob on February 09, 2009, 12:01:46 PM
The presentation about IR Pen, that I use. You can see how it was made. It works great.

http://www.slideshare.net/zarkob/ir-pen-cnti-1008330





Title: Re: Inside my IR Pen
Post by: Francisco on February 09, 2009, 12:22:18 PM
More info about IR Leds: "The Missing Test"

Vishay TSAL 5300 vs Vishay TSAL 6400

Here: http://www.wiimoteproject.com/ir-pens/electronics-101-sharing-my-mistakes!-***-updated-***/msg8368/#msg8368 (http://www.wiimoteproject.com/ir-pens/electronics-101-sharing-my-mistakes!-***-updated-***/msg8368/#msg8368)