Author Topic: IR pen - left, right click and more.. tv remote  (Read 16059 times)

Offline gacek56

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on: January 25, 2009, 11:14:41 AM
Hi
I don't have Wiimote but I thinking about it.
Wiimote need to see a simple click at least 100Hz signal from Ir pen.
Every TV remote controller give us a IR signal. I hope that it is >100Hz.
If it is then we can use it...
All of TV remote controller buttons have coded signal.

My idea is to use some code in pen or tv remote use like pen. I give it name "smart pen"
code1 - to move a mouse on screen
code2 - left click
code3 - right click
code4 - roll up
code5 - roll down
ect..

The only one think we need to know is what code do what.
So the software need to read it in configuration.
(like Girder)

What U think about this?



Offline benpaddlejones

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Reply #1 on: January 25, 2009, 09:04:09 PM
gacek56
Speak to Tino about this, I know he has done some experimentation. From what I know I don't think the Wiimote consistently detects the signal, so you don't get consistent results.

benpaddlejones :)


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Offline Wiweeyum

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Reply #2 on: January 25, 2009, 09:26:09 PM
I used a remote control with the wiimote one time to see what would happen. Your idea is plausible, but it woul not be very responsive. The coded signal sent from the remote is going to be a repeated code similar to morse code by flashing the light on and off. This means that any unique action you want the smart pen to perform would take time to signal to the wiimote, which inherently means that the 'right click' for example would not happen exactly when the button was pressed, which is what we're used to.

Let's make a few codes to illustrate the point. A hyphen is when the light is on, and blank is when the light is off.

Move cursor: -----------
Left click: - - - - - -
Right click: -- -- -- --
Roll up: --- - --- - ---
Roll down: --- --- --- ---

It would be easy to create different codes by messing with lengths of flashes and pauses, so that's not an issue. The problem comes when the computer has to take time to recognize different signals from an analog source. Let's say that the pen stays on as a default to track the mouse location constantly. We want to left click twice and then scroll down a web page. The line would look something like this to the computer.

--------- - - - - - - - -------------- - - - - - - - -------------- --- --- --- --- ---------------

So the computer's only going to register the click at the end of the completed code. Let's say an X is when the code is recognized, and a P is when the button was actually pressed. If you're still moving the pen after you press the left click button, where is the left click going to occur? Would the cursor stop as soon as pulses of light were seen? Would the click occur once it hits the X at the end of the code?

---------P - - - - - - - X--------------P - - - - - - - X--------------P --- --- --- --- X---------------

Granted, that example exaggerates the time just for example purposes. If the codes were shorter, then it would cut a lot of time. But here's another problem you'd run into. What happens when you turn the pen at a funny angle and it starts "flashing" to the wiimote? Or what if your hand got in the way. That could completely screw up and/or confuse a pulse recognition algorithm. Remotes have three different sections to a coded signal to remedy this problem. The middle is the actual action you want it to be sending, but the first and third are little codes that tell the VCR or TV that a signal is soon to be coming or just finished. So there's a few more codes that have to be made to filter out noise.

Starting: - ---  -- ---
Ending: --- --  --- -

When you couple that with the codes we had earlier, then the signals being sent get ever more important. P is when the button is pressed, Then I'll group the actual action within | and then the X is when the action is performed.

----P - ---  -- ---| - - - - - - - | --- --  --- -X--------P - ---  -- ---| - - - - - - - | --- --  --- -X--------P - ---  -- ---| --- --- --- --- | --- --  --- -X---

As you can see, this will get time consuming. Even if it's in milliseconds, that's still a lot of time when you're expecting instant results. If at any time that signal was interrupted by a hand in the way or something, then the whole click wouldn't be recognized. This is why many times, you need to press the button on your remote more than once to get it to recognize the signal.


I hope that didn't seem like I was slamming your idea into the ground. I have thought of it before and this is what I came up with as potential problems. It doesn't mean it's impossible, it just means that this is what the current approach is, and the limitations of the current approach.


~"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius -- and a lot of courage -- to move in the opposite direction."~
- EF Schumacher


Offline gacek56

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Reply #3 on: January 26, 2009, 09:19:24 AM
wow.. nice job
I'm going to pass some egzams in this 3 weeks.. my time i short now.
I will think about this in future.. but today I have some ideas:
- there are mouse on IR (they're work fine so I will think)
- the signal need to be 8bit
1 START
2 WHO (pen 1, 2, 3 or 4)
3 WHO
4 WHAT (code of that what to do)
5 WHAT
6 WHAT
7 to check the parity of information
8 END
- frequency (transmission) need to be big (4 better work)
- about the code.. (3bit = 8 codes)
000 - NOT USED
001 - left click on
010 - right click on
011 - left & right click on
100 - move on
101 - move + left on
110 - move + right on
111 - move + left + right on

Everything is possible. It Is only a matter of time.

I have only 1 question... How fast wii mote can see the simple signal?
« Last Edit: January 26, 2009, 09:51:15 AM by gacek56 »



Offline MERSOUL

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Reply #4 on: January 26, 2009, 11:06:05 AM
Excuse my bad English
I am a teacher from Morocco
I prefer wires
So, I link my ir pen directly to an old mouse for both providing current to my led and controlling right and left buttons
So I need 5 CABLES (I use a wire with 6 cables), 2 BUTTONS and 40 OHM RESISTANCE. My pen had 2 buttons linked to right and left buttons IN THE MOUSE BOARD (to weld). The led is permanently on.  I USE the only motion mode.
I am satisfied
It is very easy to use. You have always de cursor on the screen. The ir pen is a true mouse.
Thank you very much.



Offline eyucel

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Reply #5 on: January 27, 2009, 01:12:54 AM
Good job MERSOUL

Can you post a picture of your IR pen. Take care



Offline benpaddlejones

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Reply #6 on: January 27, 2009, 01:39:44 AM
MERSOUL
This has been talked about many times but, sounds like you know what your doing, some pictures and basic instruction swould be really cool.

benpaddlejones :-)


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Offline jdkestewart

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Reply #7 on: January 27, 2009, 04:28:48 AM
Hi all,
I use a mouse pen from Salient Technology VM-223 which is a presenter and a laser pointer and a fully functioning mouse with scroll capabilities. I hold it in my left hand and use it seemlessly whenever I need right click or a laser pointer etc. I use the IR pen to interact with the whiteboard. I know it's another thing to hold but it means I have full control of the white board from anywhere in the room even when children are using it (the IR Pen). I can take over, help and get them going again without having to go to the front of the board, unless I want to.

 http://pen-mouse.com/

Here's a link to the mousepen.

The children pass this around at their desks so they don't even have to leave their seats either. It's not as good for writing with but it's excellent for click, drag and drop activities, games and websites which account for a large majority of applications especially in the Primary school context. It uses an RF Receiver not bluetooth and  it doesn't need to be calibrated like the wiimote. Using both tools together gives the user complete functionality and from anywhere in the room. I've found that they work beautifully together.

Joe Stewart



Offline MERSOUL

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Reply #8 on: January 27, 2009, 04:31:58 PM
This is only for demo
You must link it to pen
You can see the led on linked only to mouse
For calibration, you can
- add a switch on/off
- use an other pen
- use your hand for hiding/showing the led



Offline MERSOUL

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Reply #9 on: January 27, 2009, 04:39:56 PM
Please read at first right not left button



Offline bubka

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Reply #10 on: February 04, 2009, 07:49:23 PM
I was at a trade show in December and there is a company called AV Rover who have pretty much made a retail wiimote irpen setup which what we have been building.  The IR pen also supports Left and Right click, by IR frequencies

http://www.avrover.com/avrover.html

Here is their IR cameria and IR "wand" pen



It worked flawlessly too.

Demo:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4ccysJXhZ4[/youtube]


Offline jmitchell

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Reply #11 on: February 04, 2009, 10:49:11 PM
How about coming up with the $950 to have one?

http://www.nisewongerav.com/PresentationSystems.html

Wiimote Whiteboard Expert and seller - http://penteractive.us


Offline benpaddlejones

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Reply #12 on: February 05, 2009, 12:06:17 AM
John
Yes, these have hit the market in the past two months. They offer nothing the mimeo does better for the same price point. There is also another manufactuer in the UK of a similar product and price.

I was actually woundering if they are using the pixart camera?

My advice if you want to blow $1000 on an IWB go mimeo far better tracking as the IR sensor sits on the display surface and the packaged software (including ritepen) is pretty good.

I am personally hoping over the next 6-12 months hardware manufacturers like yourself will find a reliable source of the pixart camera and build these very cheap to compliment your IR-Pens.

When a Wiimote & well made IR-Pen from a range of manufactures costs below $50USD why bother!

I personally understand when your at the supermarket choosing the $2 can of bakedbeans over the the $1 can is reasonable becuase they do taste a bit nicer. But I'm pretty sure the $20 can is struggling for sales.

benpaddlejones :)


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Offline Wiweeyum

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Reply #13 on: February 05, 2009, 01:37:06 AM
My question is not about getting the equipment itself, but how they managed to do left and right clicks with the different frequencies.


~"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius -- and a lot of courage -- to move in the opposite direction."~
- EF Schumacher


Offline MERSOUL

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Reply #14 on: February 08, 2009, 04:47:49 PM
PLEASE DONT FROGET SOMETHING : THE LOW COST