Wiimote Project

Wiimote Projects => Wiimote Interactive Whiteboard => Topic started by: petranf on February 08, 2009, 06:59:02 AM

Title: Succesful setup , write, left click
Post by: petranf on February 08, 2009, 06:59:02 AM
Hello everybody.
First i would to thank the community for the wealth of knoledge and the inspiration to make my whiteboard. Since i am a civil engineer, my main interest is to make my work productive and most of all to replace the lcd screen ( which has offered me a lot of headaches) whith a projector.

I have done the first step. Set up the wii which works nice. Just waiting tfor the projector...

I also upgraded the tip-click pen so that i am able to watch the mouse pointer all the time and when i press it i manipulate the left click. Also i can manipulate the right click. Soon i ll post more details...

My main issue at the moment is that i want a better quality pen such as the navisis ezcanvas : http://www.navisis.com/ENGLISH/03_pro/ez-canvas_navisis.php?tmenu=03.
I like the small infrared led which i believe will eliminate any cursor offest.

Does anyone know where to find this one ?
Title: Re: Succesful setup , write, left click
Post by: jmitchell on February 08, 2009, 08:06:02 AM
I'm not sure if you were asking about the type pen or the complete system. I was intrigued by the concept as well so I found the system being sold on ebay - http://cgi.ebay.com/EZ-Canvas-PC-Tablet-Screen-Monitor-Capture-_W0QQitemZ390000746696QQcmdZViewItem (http://cgi.ebay.com/EZ-Canvas-PC-Tablet-Screen-Monitor-Capture-_W0QQitemZ390000746696QQcmdZViewItem).
Title: Re: Succesful setup , write, left click
Post by: petranf on February 08, 2009, 03:13:02 PM
No, my main interest is just the pen, since i have a good wii setup. I just wonder if i could find at least a smaller led just like navis's pen.

By the way, If navisis ez canvas could apply to screens bigger than 19inch, maybe i would buy it.
Title: Re: Succesful setup , write, left click
Post by: benpaddlejones on February 08, 2009, 04:52:24 PM
petranf/jmitcell
Interesting preat product & price, I see a lot of potential (none for the wiimoteproject though)

Not sure if the IR-Led will be bright enough for Wiimote.

benpaddlejones :-)
Title: Re: Succesful setup , write, left click
Post by: Hoaxjak on February 08, 2009, 05:36:48 PM
well, a "fine tip" light pen wouldn't be too far outside the realm of possibility, would could just have a piece of fiber optic cable which leads the led light to a "tip", effectively reducing the size of the IR source, making tracking more precise.
Title: Re: Succesful setup , write, left click
Post by: Hoaxjak on February 09, 2009, 01:27:29 AM
i'd be very interested to see what your solution to the left click dillema was. A lot of people have tried to solve this and gotten mixed results
Title: Re: Succesful setup , write, left click
Post by: benpaddlejones on February 09, 2009, 02:22:16 AM
Hoaxjak
I think that the fibre optic will only really work with rear view displays the wiimote requires a reasonable sized IR-Blog to detect. That said certainly worth researching.

The right click in this pen is most proberbly done by a weak wireless radio, like many wireless mice/keyboards. Giving only a range of 1m max from radio, hence useless for a large whiteboard setup.

I would argue the Right Clicker in the systems tool bar is the leading rick click solution for the IWB's I have used. I put the idea to boonjin before I had actually tried other IWB's ( :D feeling good about myself right now  :D):

Smartboard: A physical button on the base of the board
Promethean: A gesture (wave the pen a certain way)
Panabaord: An awkard button on the pen

I find the quick motion to the system try click, see a visual confirmation of a right click for the next click then right click in my choice is very quick and painless. The only thing that beats it in my view is a Wacom graphics tablet. The pen switch is very smooth and natural.

benpaddlejones :)
Title: Re: Succesful setup , write, left click
Post by: petranf on February 14, 2009, 06:27:48 AM
Ok , i have made a diagram of the pen. I hope it is undersandalble. I dont have a camera for a demnstation.

I may have disappointed somebody about the wired version :), but it works fine with me and it is not a big deal if you use a wireless mouse. The big advantage is that you are able to see the pointer move ALL the time when you move the pen close to the board and when you press it , you are able to paint-write-left click generally.

I am available for any suggestions
Title: Re: Succesful setup , write, left click
Post by: petranf on February 14, 2009, 07:20:43 AM
forgot the diagram :)

http://s237.photobucket.com/albums/ff130/petranf/?action=view&current=wiipensetup.jpg
Title: Re: Succesful setup , write, left click
Post by: broorb on February 14, 2009, 10:31:25 AM
This can be implemented with an IR pen that can fit the smallest RF wireless mouse ( http://www.asus.com/products.aspx?l1=27&l2=145&l3=658&l4=0&model=2141&modelmenu=1 ).  I am yet to see how much this is though.
Title: Re: Succesful setup , write, left click
Post by: benpaddlejones on February 14, 2009, 06:33:00 PM
petranf
I'm about to try this with a Bluetooth mouse. I have a really nice MX9000, that will be easy, but i like that mouse. I have just bought a $15 mouse on ebay. I want to try piggy backing the IR-Led power supply direct from the mouse, have a right/left & centre click buttons, with left click also preassure sensitive. I want to try and keep the mouse intact so it will fit in the users pocket (long ribbon wiring) so it can be used as a mouse if needed.

benpaddlejones :)
Title: Re: Succesful setup , write, left click
Post by: petranf on February 15, 2009, 10:35:47 AM
petranf
... I want to try piggy backing the IR-Led power supply direct from the mouse, have a right/left & centre click buttons, with left click also preassure sensitive. .benpaddlejones :)

Benpaddlejones, I didnt find a 1.5 volts sourse from the mouse "plaket". The mouse led uses 0.5 volts. If you get 1.5V please let me known cause battery dont last long.
I am also interested for the click sensitivity. I dont know how you will achieve this but it will be for sure very interesting.

I have added a vid, check it out:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYy28QtM8XI[/youtube]
Title: Re: Succesful setup , write, left click
Post by: benpaddlejones on February 15, 2009, 04:05:22 PM
petranf
A bluetooth mouse requires 2x AA/AAA batteries, I going to hack diretc to the batteries. IR-Led draws so little current should affect the mouse (may be wrong will then include  abattery in the IR-Pen body.

Pressure sensitive concept: http://www.wiimoteproject.com/ir-pens/improved-pressure-tip-pen/ I will direct wire the IR-Led and wire the pressure sensitive mechanisim to teh left click on the mouse.

I have only just orderd a Mini USB mouse from ebay. So when complete I will show pictures etc.

benpaddlejones :)
Title: Re: Succesful setup , write, left click
Post by: petranf on February 15, 2009, 04:38:57 PM

...Pressure sensitive concept: ...
ahh ok, i thought you ment that it will work like wacom and "read" the pressure of the pen. Mine is pressure sensite too.


Title: Re: Succesful setup , write, left click
Post by: dsgclan on February 19, 2009, 02:12:49 AM
hi benpaddlejones, why does it have to be wired to a mouse to do right click? can we just make a pen that can do a momentary triple click on the click of one button, then ask Boon Jin to make his software recogonize this triple click as a right click?
Title: Re: Succesful setup , write, left click
Post by: benpaddlejones on February 19, 2009, 04:54:13 AM
dsgclan
This has been explored along with the click hold for 5 seconds at set location. This has two key issues:

1. Inaccuracy of detection. i.e calibration and other factors may mean the location may not be consistent, thus three clicks as three seperate locations versus the required 3 clicks at a single location
2. Delay, if you actually test (give a number of attempts to acheive profeciency) it is quicker to go to they system tray, click, then go to your required location and click for a right click.

ujs's 5 second hold is really cool and works nice but in my experince of teaching under pressure verus playing in an artifical environment the system tray works the best. I move my IR-pen get a visual confirmation that the next click will be  aright click then perform the required action. As a fairly animated teacher I found it difficult to hold the IR-Pen still (while talking/presenting) to get the right click.

benpaddlejones :)
Title: Re: Succesful setup , write, left click
Post by: dsgclan on February 19, 2009, 10:20:34 AM
Hi Ben,

1. Inaccuracy of detection. i.e calibration and other factors may mean the location may not be consistent, thus three clicks as three seperate locations versus the required 3 clicks at a single location

2. Delay, if you actually test (give a number of attempts to acheive profeciency) it is quicker to go to they system tray, click, then go to your required location and click for a right click.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If we make a pen with a special right click button, when the button is clicked it gives the LED a triple flash that happens, say, within 0.3 second, isn't that gonna work? the location won't change in 0.3 second and there will be no delay, I think this can work, just need Boon Jin's support in the software. If you agree with me I'm gonna explore into this.
Title: Re: Succesful setup , write, left click
Post by: Wiweeyum on February 19, 2009, 03:23:34 PM
dsgclan, I completely agree that the logic sounds good. I think it would work supremely well in a very controlled environment where the whiteboard and camera are located in a specific place. But this is not that case with the wiimote whiteboard. People have vastly different setups even just depending on which room they're in. Consider what would happen if the button were pressed at an angle and only two flashes were recognized by the wiimote. That's a double click. That becomes a very frustrating problem when you don't realize what happened.

Don't get me wrong, the idea has potential. I think you should explore it with or without bens permission and learn for yourself what does and doesn't work. What Ben's doing is bringing up issues that have already been discussed at some length to help you out. If you want to talk to boonjin about it, then talk to boonjin about it. See what he says. Just remember that programming is not easy and demanding someone to put something in a program is just as ridiculous as me trying to code smoothboard myself... except you end up ticking other people off.
Title: Re: Succesful setup , write, left click
Post by: benpaddlejones on February 19, 2009, 04:17:34 PM
dsgclan
I think its worth trying, use Johnny's demo code seee if you can get it as stable as other RC options.

I suggest you also talk to Tino, I know he has done some work in this field he maybe able to give you some support and guideance.

benpaddlejones :)
Title: Re: Succesful setup , write, left click
Post by: petranf on February 20, 2009, 07:43:18 AM
A sketch i did for fun on artrage.  :)
http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff130/petranf/pen.jpg

I may make this, cause i want to get rid the annoying wires that we all dislike.
I strongly encourage everybody that want a cintiq alternative (without having pressure sensitivity) to build this pen. I only have to say this: I have almost replaced the mouse.


Peter
Title: Re: Succesful setup , write, left click
Post by: benpaddlejones on February 20, 2009, 01:36:10 PM
petranf
I suggest you use a BT mouse so you get a decent range. I bought a mini BT USB mouse on ebay for $30AUS with postage.

Just need to work out pressure tip & wait for mouse to arrive.

benpaddlejones :)
Title: Re: Succesful setup , write, left click
Post by: petranf on February 21, 2009, 01:49:55 AM
Thanks for the tip benpaddlejones.
Can you pm me where from you ordered your mouse ?
Title: Re: Succesful setup , write, left click
Post by: dsgclan on February 21, 2009, 03:00:30 AM
hi Ben, Wiweeyum, yes I will explore into this and make a triple click pen first anyway, I will keep you posted of my finding, thanks.
Title: Re: Succesful setup , write, left click
Post by: benpaddlejones on February 21, 2009, 03:20:43 PM
petranf
Search ebay for "mini bluetooth mouse"

Mine will be like this one: http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Mini-1000-DPI-Bluetooth-Wireless-Optical-Mouse-BM-053_W0QQitemZ250376344693QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_Input_Peripherals?hash=item250376344693&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2|65%3A1|39%3A1|240%3A1318 (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Mini-1000-DPI-Bluetooth-Wireless-Optical-Mouse-BM-053_W0QQitemZ250376344693QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_Input_Peripherals?hash=item250376344693&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2|65%3A1|39%3A1|240%3A1318)

The seller said had a screw on the bottom to pull apart. (some of the other models are glued together). As soon as I get it I'll pull it apart and let you know how easy it looks.

benpaddlejones :)
Title: Re: Succesful setup , write, left click
Post by: creative2010 on February 14, 2010, 03:33:03 AM
hi guys,
im not an engeneer, but i thought about solving this, like using different remotes for different tvīs. so if one can be able to modulate the ir signal output in. eg.  first signal- left-klick and second signal, right click there is no use for connecting a mouse between. i dont know if this is possible.
regards
creative
Title: Re: Succesful setup , write, left click
Post by: boonjin on February 14, 2010, 08:00:02 AM
Hi,

The Wiimote has only a refresh rate of about 100hz which means we have to sacrifice the latency if the signal is modulated. The tv remotes have modulated frequencies of exceeding 1000hz and may be even much higher.

I have tried myself using a simple modulated signal to differentiate the left and right click. It does work however may not be reliable if low latency is required. It would be easier to just use a wireless mouse.

Regards,
Boon Jin
Title: Re: Succesful setup , write, left click
Post by: shakespeare1212 on February 14, 2010, 03:39:51 PM
I thought that this problem was already solved. Can't you just use smoothboard in "whiteboard and presenter" mode, keep a second wii remote in your off hand and use it to do right clicks. Another posibilitity is maybe a "constellation" of IR LEDS. One LED goes on for left clicks but the whole constellation, up to 3 more LEDS, goes on for a right click.  These could be placed in a configuration that could be recognized when viewed from any angle, like the feduciary markers in augmented reality.  Would this work?

Ir might be a little ugly though. I would love to be able to use tiney surface mount LEDs instead of the TSAL 6400.

What do you think guys? A simple way to right click would be SO cool.
Title: Re: Succesful setup , write, left click
Post by: kthalas on March 01, 2010, 02:36:25 PM
Ummm, And why dont just use 2 ir pens, 1 ir pen for left click , and if is needed use the other pen(preassure sensitive) in the other hand and "click it in" and the software should translate the appearance of this other IR source as a right click?